Urban Survival and Societal Collapse - Reader Comments

UrbanSurvivalSkills.com received a long comment from Anonymous regarding the post "Societal Collapse - Part 2: Poverty, Chronically Ill....":

Good comments from a thinking person and they deserve return comments from me not only from what I disagree with but what I agree on. Anonymous' comments are in Italics.

He's guessing based on worse case. Argentina is a reasonable model of a economic collapse and virtually everything he talks about simply did not happen. Some cities will be problematic or more correctly have pockets of problem areas but most cities will ba as safe as the countryside is. I'm not saying it will be just as safe as today but that it won't be an huge difference and leaving the city won't make you safe. In fact the only real difference is if the bad guy gets you in the country he has more time to do bad things because there is no one around to catch him or stop him.

UrbanMan replies: I have to disagree somewhat here. The cities may be as safe as rural areas but only for so long. After a undetermined time period food is going to scare. Some people may have to move to the Government run FEMA type camps in order to survive - these will be the unprepared people. I have also said that Survival is a Team Sport and you have to have a prepared plan. Having a rural location to move to and meet with other alike minded people is going to much safer. I would agree that moving to the country won't make you safer unless you have a Survival Group to rely on and have a plan and are prepared to survive there, food, water and security wise.

An economic collapse will be very much like the great depression. Lots of problems and not enough food and necessities but people will still continue to live their lives and take care of their needs as best they can. As far as disease is concerned unless you are talking about a pandemic and not an economic collapse disease is unlikely to be a major factor. Yes, people who are already seriously ill will be at risk, but healthy people won't just get sick and die.

UrbanMan replies: I'm thinking that another great depression will be much worse than the 1930's, since we have a much more highly mobile population; the population is much greater in density; instant communications via cell phones and the internet will influence the population; and, the United States is much less capable to feed our own population than we were in the 1930's. I think that with a 27% increase in people on food stamps and a 34% increase in people on unemployment benefits, we now have the largest gap in the "have's" and the "have nots", and that combined with the cultural shift over the past several decades into an entitliest society creates a giant potential for anarchy upon a economic collapse.

One of the problems is knowing what is going to happen. No one knows. We can guess and then guess what the result might be but no one knows.

UrbanMan replies: Roger on the know one knows. I think you have to wargame against the possible and probable threats to your survival which boil down to two things: Subsistence (water and food) and Security.

One thing this guys forgets as he tries to conflate the New Orleans experience with an economic collapse: Most people did in fact get the hell out of New Orleans and took care of themselves. Most of those who stayed were already on some form of welfare and had never in their lives "taken care of themselves". If you are expecting the government to provide then you will be very disappointed. But the government will most likely do what it can considering the scope of the problem another great depression would cause.

UrbanMan replies: You are right on New Orleans and the people waiting for the government to take care of them - should be a lesson to us all. I have worked for the government for over three decades. I have little faith in the government's ability to take care of the population and in fact I think the government will likely be the cause of the economic collapse.

Urban Survival Firearms - M1 Garands from the Civilian Marksmanship Program

This may not be common knowledge to all people, but the Civilian Marksmanship Program still exists. And it is still possible to obtain a service rifle such as an M1 Garand and sometimes even M1 Carbines become available. At times, ammunition at great prices are available.

CMP RIFLE SALES. The federal law that established the CMP authorizes it to sell surplus military .22 rimfire and .30 cal. rifles and ammunition to qualified U. S. citizens who are members of gun clubs affiliated with the CMP. All purchasers must provide proof of having received gun safety or marksmanship training and pass an FBI NICS check. The principal rifles sold through this program have been WWII era M1 Garand rifles and WWI era M1903 rifles. The law mandates that proceeds from these sales may be used only to support the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Each year since its establishment in 1996, the CMP has produced an excess of revenues over expenses to fund its firearm safety, marksmanship training and competition programs and an endowment that will support future programs.

For information rifle sales go to: http://www.thecmp.org/

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501 (c) (3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills. Links on this page will lead you to more detailed information about the CMP and its programs.

STATUTORY MISSION. The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 0701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key “functions for the corporation:

(1) To instruct citizens of the United States in marksmanship;
(2) To promote practice and safety in the use of firearms;
(3) To conduct competitions in the use of firearms and to award trophies, prizes, badges, and other insignia to competitors.

The law specifically states: In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.

Some of the latest news from CMP:

WINCHESTER SERVICE GRADE M1 GARAND. The CMP now has several hundred Winchester M1 Garand rifles for sale. Please visit http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm . Item number is RM1WRAS. Price is $795 plus $22.95 S&H.

CMP SALES AT THE 2010 WESTERN CMP GAMES. The Western CMP Games and Creedmoor Cup Match combine to offer an unprecedented nine-day series of clinics, recreation-oriented "as-issued" military rifle matches and national-class service and match rifle competitions with the best highpower rifle shooters in the country. The event will take place 16-24 October at the Ben Avery Shooting Facility, Phoenix , AZ. The Official Program and on-line registration are posted at http://www.odcmp.com/competitions/westerngames.htm. M1 Garand rifles will be available for selection and subsequent purchase. Memorabilia, new rifle barrels, gun cases, bayonets, rifle stocks, and ammunition will be available for immediate purchase.

M1 CARBINES SOLD OUT. The CMP is now sold out of M1 carbines except for the few we will still be selling on our auction program. http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/index.asp. At this time, we have no reason to expect to receive any additional quantities of carbines.

The Urban Survivor could do alot worse than an old service grade M1 Garand Rifle as his primary survival firearm.

Societal Collapse - Part 2: Poverty, Chronically Ill and Death

Already got a PM on why I decided to post this DEMCAD fella videoing his thoughts on Societal Collapse. One of my reader's sent me the link and asked me to comment on this guy. So I decided to give this guy (DEMCAD) another audience and evaluate his comments.

DEMCAD continues on with Part II of the Collapse of Society. His posting on You Tube created alot of comments concerning the validity of the Government to control disaffected areas. Basically the only way to control a population, other than brute force - which would backfire, would be with incentives such as security, food and water.

His valid points this time are the cities will be a bad place to live - survive. That you would have to get out of the urban areas or other with hihg population densities and this requires a vehicle. This Bug Out would of course require a plan and the timing to execute that plan.

The topic of the spread of diseases is valid. This brings up the long discussed point of being able to deal with refugees in a safe and secure manner. Think about how you are going to handle groups, even large groups of people, who need help and may be sick. Children are going to be, in particular, hard to turn down.

He talks about walking out of a city. Possible,..... but not without planning and preparation,...and don't forget the timing, made possible by tracking your indicators.

Again he talks about people leaving the cities looking for resources and the necessity of having the ability to protect the resources you have.

Societal Collapse - Part I: Plagues and Diseases

Ran across this video and will post them to let the readers decide what validity it has. You have to listen to the end. This gent brings up some valid points,.... ....first about municipalities going broke and not being to pay for services such as law enforcement, emergency response, then probably utilities such as electricity, water and the all important garbage removal.

His second valid point is the the cities will become smaller,..hell, they may even empty out as there is no way to sustain life with any type of society as we know it. Food will be scare and that will force people to the rural areas.

His third point is that the general health will deteriorate and bring on diseases and sickness from the uncontrolled spread of illnesses and lack of sanitation.

His final point is that the collapse is not the end but a transition and says the future will belong to those who prepare.

I think this guy gets it and wish I could get more people, such as my relatives, on board with this pattern of thought.