Latest Pistol Caliber Carbine - Suitable for the Collapse?

Probably the highest density of e-mails I receive are questions regarding survival guns. Readers ask me what weapons or arsenal of weapons I would consider suitable to survive a total collapse. The bottom line is: Have a gun, in fact have several; have sufficient ammunition for each gun; be competent with each gun you own and train your family members to use them as well.

Having said that there are some guns that are more suitable than others for particular or general situations. Here are some instances or things to consider:

If you have a bug out location,such as a house of cabin with hundreds of yards of cleared fields of fire or observation, why would someone limit their survival firearms to handguns, pistol caliber carbines and Shotguns? You would run the risk of being out ranged.

If you are an urban dweller and plan to bug in the urban environment or to transit large urban areas during your bug out, why would you limit yourself to long barreled shotguns or rifles?

Consider your environment. Consider your ranges. Consider your potential threats and density of threats.

While the M1911 .45 caliber semi -automatic is a great gun, with a single stack magazine, it may not be the best choice of a high density threat environment. I, for one, would prefer a large capacity 9mm for a handgun. Same as for a rifle. A .308 caliber M1A1 rifle is a great weapon, but perhaps an M-4 carbine could be better suited for the urban environment.

So that bring me to the latest question I received, and that was what do I think about the latest pistol caliber carbine to hit the market, the MasterPiece Arms MPA30DMG 9mm. The question was if I thought a decent survival arsenal would be the MasterPiece Arms MPA30DMG 9mm carbine to go with a Glock 17 handgun.

[Source: http://masterpiecearms.com/shop/mpa20dmg-9mm-carbine-all-aluminum-lower/]

Here is the data on the MasterPiece Arms MPA30DMG 9mm:

Price: MSRP - $966.00

Company Narrative: The grip is our most ergonomically designed grip system incorporating a “Solidworks” designed profile allowing the use of standard Glock style magazines, with a low profile magazine release and “Decal Grip” grip panels. The lower is machined from aircraft grade aluminum, provides cleaner lines and lighter weight than our standard steel receivers. The Hand guard is produced from an Aluminum Extrusion, has no fasteners, and is free floating.

Specs:

Cal: 9mm
Barrel Length: 16.2
Thread: 1/2-28
Side Cocker
Side Folder Stock
Scope Mount
Barrel Extension
Adjustable Front and Rear Sights
Accepts Standard Glock Style High Capacity Magazines (1 Mag Included)
Coating: Cerakote (Burnt Bronze is standard color – other colors available including Black, Tungsten, Sniper Green, Gunmetal and FDE.
Decal Grip Grip Panels
Hammer with Disconnect plus original Hammer
MPA Polymer Case

While I have carbines - M4 and M1's, I do not own a pistol caliber carbine. My reasoning is why have a large platform that only shoots pistol calibers? Although it may be useful for some of your survival teams members, e.g.. ladies, old people and children. But if you have to own one, then own one that has magazines that are inter-changeable with your handguns.

Urban Man

Effects of Gun Ban Proposals

Received this through e-mail:  Urbanman, I thought you would be tickled to get this update from the Southland. My friend recently sold one of his DPMS carbines and six magazines to someone for $3,000. He bought the carbine for around $850. This kind of shows you the value of guns when the SHTF and we are straight bartering. My friend told me someone else wants a carbine so he may sell another one as well. $6,000 would buy a truckload of food. Sure am glad I don't have to buy one of those since I already have an AR-15, but my primary gun is my old Ruger Model 77 in .308 Win. But by God what kind of desperation does a man have to have to spend $3,000 on a rifle?

UrbanMan's comments: I have been getting report after, e-mail after Pm on the prices from all over. It is crazy. Good thing most of us, and those reading this, probably have plenty of both AR type rifles or something suitable for protection and enough ammunition to last. Some friends of mine from Arizona and Texas are telling me they can't buy .223 ammunition in any of the sporting good stores. Another told me P-magazines for AR's were going for $100 each,.....$100 each!! I bought mine for around $12 each. And yet another gent told me that AR prices at a gun show were $2,700 to $3,600. All because of some anti-constitutionalists want to take away our guns! Here is one account that was forwarded to me by a friend:

......AR15's went from $1000 to $3000 in a few hours. .223 caliber ammo went from $300 to $900 in the same time period. There is absolutely nothing left of any quality at the wholesale level. I mean zero. People are completely freaked out. I cannot tell you what it was like on my way out the door. Completely out of control.

I personally don't think anything will make it through the House or the Senate. This will be done via executive order. Legal or not. It will be challenged in court, but will have about the same outcome as the Health Care Bill challenge. I have been in the weapons industry for over 30 years now and never seen anything like this. I wonder about all of these people buying weapons, ammo, and magazines. I seriously doubt that many know how to effectively use them defensively, much less offensively. They just think they need them because someone told them that they are not going to be able to buy them anymore. Kind of like a Cabbage Patch Doll going on sale on Black Friday.

The powers that be have a game plan. Plain and simple. They cannot execute the game plan until we are disarmed. There are a series of steps that will take place to achieve that goal. They have already played many of those cards out behind the scenes unknown to most. Did you know that you cannot import a gun part or round of ammunition into this country that meets their description of "non-sporting' anymore? What does that mean? There are about a thousand more regulations in place that most have not a clue exist.

The next card to play is one that they are mulling around now. That will be the requirement that you register you weapon (assault or not) with them for your safety. No charge at first of course. Next will be ammunition (via taxes) and magazine control. After they get a handle on that, they will simply make it a Federal offense to own them. They will not come around and pick them up. That will be too dangerous. They will just prosecute you when they catch you with them. There will be a few people made example of and that will take care of the masses.

Some of this will be done via random road check points and routine traffic stops. The game plan will be executed by DHS, TSA and local law enforcement that agrees to comply. The FEDS will use the almighty dollar as a carrot to entice them to cooperate. Now the massive purchases of ammunition, arms and armored vehicles by DHS, TSA and the existence of those FEMA Camps should start to make more sense to you.

I often hear some say they will hide or bury their weapons. If you do that, you might as well not have one. It would be worthless then. I am starting to wonder how many of the NRA guys really mean what they say, "Pry it from my cold dead hands." I would venture to say that most would cut and run at the first sight of authority. Take that and the fact that we are completely unorganized and you will start to see that we are very vulnerable. Internet and telecommunication control starting make more sense to you now?

We are not quickly approaching uncharted waters, we are in them. Like I said before, you are going to have to decide whether you are a man (or woman) or not, just shortly. When I look around at most customers, I suspect that is typically not the case.

One has to spend a lot of time to decide whether or not to comply. End of story. This is my country, not theirs.

I think back a few years ago, when I was having dinner with a "seasoned" combat vet who was a gun ship pilot during the Vietnam War and he said something that has always stuck with me. "Give up your weapons and you are a dead man". The look in his eye and the tone of his voice always stuck with me.

I know what I think I have, but then I have not had to confront anyone that demanded that I disarm myself until now. Especially someone employed by my government with a gun and handcuffs. It does however; make me take another long look at a poster I have on the wall in my office of an unarmed person kneeling at the edge of a ditch filled with dead bodies during WWII being shot in the back of the head by a German Nazi officer.

Survival Planning: Another Run on Guns?

I often go through my pockets and pull out $1 bills and the ocassional $5 bill and put into a jar then a couple times a year fish it out to spend on survival odds and ends so I stopped in a local gun shop the other day seeking to buy a few boxes of ammunition for some of the older guns in my battery of firearms. To my surprise at 3 pm on a weekday afternoon, the gun shop was full. Knowing all the guys running the store and not having been in the store for a few months, I asked if the crowd was unique and I was told that for the past 2, maybe three months, business had picked up substantially.

One of the guys was adament that the Doomsday Prepper television shows had much to do with it, but all of them agreed that business would remain high through the national presidential elections and even continue through that if Obama is elected again.

Oh my ammunition? I was seeking some .30-06, .30 carbine, .30-30 and .380 for some backup guns of mine. I walked out of the store with one box of .30-30 - that was all they had in stock. I was told to call or stop back in four weeks.

My recent experience must be the norm as ABC-Good Morning America published an on-line article, by Alan Farnham (probably no relation to John), titled Gun Sales Booming: Doomsday, Obama or Zombies? In case you missed it, here it is:

Buyers in record numbers are flooding into gun stores, retailers say. Ammo, too, is flying off the shelves. The reasons for the spike, last seen in 2009, include fears that a second Obama administration might restrict gun ownership and the popularity of TV shows devoted to doomsday preparation and killing zombies.

"He's never been pro-gun," says Cris Parsons of President Obama. Parsons, 31, owns a Texas gun purveyor called the Houston Armory. So far, Parsons insists, Obama has been "pretty coy" about his antipathy toward guns--and he likely will remain so during the campaign. To do otherwise would "upset a lot of people."

But if Obama wins a second term, he'll have "nothing to lose," says Parsons. Alan Korwin, author of nine books on gun laws, including "Gun Laws of America," says gun owners are worried that the president, as a lame duck, will clamp down as never before on gun ownership.

Parsons says about 40 percent of Armory customers cite this fear as their reason for stocking up on guns and ammo now, before the election.

"Frenzy" is the word he uses to describe their buying. Dollar sales for the Armory are up 30 to 40 percent this quarter compared to last. Parsons thinks his store's performance is indicative of sales nationally, based on what he hears from dealers, suppliers and other store owners.

Gun maker Sturm, Ruger says that in the first quarter it received orders for more than 1 million firearms--so many that it has now had to stop taking orders. Says a notice on its website: "Despite the company's continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders." It expects to resume accepting orders, it says, at the end of May.

Stocks of gun makers are surging. Sturm, Ruger's share price is up 55 percent this year. Smith & Wesson soared 91 percent. Sporting goods and hunting retailer Cabela's is up 53 percent.

Other forces besides politics, though, explain the current boom. "There're the 'preppers," explains Parsons, "and then there's this whole Zombie Apocalypse thing."

He refers to two hot trends in popular culture.

The first is a National Geographic TV show called "Doomsday Prepers" that chronicles the preparations being made by people convinced that a doomsday of some kind is coming. A whole industry has sprung up to sell preppers survival and self-dense goods, including guns and ammo.

Then there are zombies--zombie movies, zombie comics, zombie novels, zombie TV shows. Americans' fascination with all things zombie, Parsons says, has grown to such proportions that arms manufactures now have come out with zombie-specific firearms and ammo. Products include a line Zombie Max ammunition (slogan: "just in case") made by Hornady Manufacturing. "We can't keep it in stock," says Parsons. "It comes in a cool, colorful box with a Zombie on it."

There are more than a dozen manufacturers, says Parsons, making zombie rifles, some with a picture of a zombie on them The two position on a zombie rifle's safety, instead of being marked "safe" and "fire," are labeled "dead" and "undead."

Gun maker DPMS Panther Arms is taking sign-ups now for its fifth annual zombie shoot, "Outbreak: Omega" set for June 23. "DPMS' Outbreak: Omega," says the company's website, "is the Original Zombie Shoot, and the largest. It is a non competitive 3-gun style fun shoot. All are invited to come and try your hand at killing Zombies. Tons of Prizes...followed by a HUGE after party!"

Attendees don't actually shoot Zombies, which, last we heard, don't actually exist. They shoot targets that are zombie stand-ins.

Says Parsons, summing up the reasons for record gun sales, "You got zombies, you got 'preppers, and you got Obama."

Rabbi Talks About the Growing Survival Threat

Incredible Government mismanagement of taxpayers money and the base economy; Riots in London where widespread robberies, destruction, looting and assault taking place. Forty Three million Americans on food stamps; Another round (QE3) of printing Money to deflate the value of the existing money supply; crop failures, natural disasters and more government regulation decreasing the ability of this country to produce food;

All this and some people are actually saying it will get worse! Glenn Beck is predicting race riots over the failed economy and coming collapse. Some very main stream people are actually saying, whispering mind you, but nevertheless saying the SHTF is going to happen and happen within two years. Other are quietly preparing for the collapse and preparing first to protect who and what is theirs.

A friend of ours sent us the following letter from Rabbi Bendory talking about the growing danger. The highlights of which are posted below:

An Open Letter To All Urban Residents –
And Especially Jews.

by Rabbi Dovid Bendory, Rabbinic Director,Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, and certified NRA Instructor.

Times have changed rapidly, and ominously so. In Wisconsin – home to JPFO’s office – “Witnesses' accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night.”

In Philadelphia, the “mayor talks tough to black teenagers after ‘flash mobs’ … attack people at random on the streets of the city’s tourist and fashionable shopping districts.” The mayor has now imposed a curfew on the City.

“In Chicago on Memorial Day weekend, roving teens flashed gang signs, knocked cyclists off their bikes and harassed picnickers.”

We’ve seen similar events in Peoria, IL; Atlanta, GA; Las Vegas, NV; and – close to home for me personally – South Orange, NJ.

And while you won’t see it in the Main Stream Media, you can find plenty of blogs that highlight the racial undertones – and overtones – of these flash mobs. Here’s an account of a Peoria eye-witness who says the mob chanted “kill all the white people.”

As most decent people are watching the stock market gyrations and following our federal government’s mismanagement of both monetary and fiscal policy, our nation is entering an unpredictable phase. I’m sorry to say that, based on history, things are going to get worse. Just look at London, England, where four nights of rioting hooligans have resulted in the deployment of an extra 16,000 police officers in an attempt to stop the looting, vandalism, destruction, assaults, and robbery.

GET A GUN.

Get a gun, and learn how to shoot it accurately, under pressure. If you find yourself in a “flash mob,” the police will NOT show up in time to do you a bit of good. These mobs gather in minutes and disburse just as quickly when the first police car arrives. Or worse, they attack the first police officers until backup arrives.

What kind of gun should you get? Start with a quality semi-automatic pistol. A standard magazine of 12 or 15 rounds will come with it, and you can purchase and carry one or two backup magazines on your person or in your car. If your state laws allow it, a loaded shotgun in your car wouldn’t be a bad idea either.

And in London, all guns are outlawed. Thank God, in America, we still have the Second Amendment.

Read the entire article here, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership:

Urban Survival Weapons – Rifle/Shotgun Combination Guns

Months back UrbanSurvivalSkills.com wrote about the M-6 Aircrew Rifle (to see the past post click here) as it’s suitability for a “pure” survival firearm, meaning one meant to procure game as opposed to a defensive firearms. The M6 Aircrew Rifle as you’ll remember was meant as a survival firearm, mainly for game procurement, for down air crews,…… hence the name “Aircrew Rifle”. These guns are no longer manufactured, but if you can find one, you’ll be paying around $400.

Recently we were asked about other combination rifle - shotgun’s such as the Savage Model 24 series, over and under rifle-shotgun combination. Savage makes very good, high quality firearms and it is no exception to the Model 24 Series. Available in several rifle calibers: .22 Magnum, .22 Hornet, .17 HMR, .223 Remington, .357 Magnum and .30-30 Winchester ; and two shotgun gauges: 12 gauge and 20 gauge, this combination gun provides the user with the ability to take rabbits to deer, quail to turkey.

Savage Model 24 Combination guns are no longer made, but if you could find one, you would have to pay in the range of $450 for the .22 WMR – 20 gauge version and up to $1,500 for the .357 Magnum – 20 gauge model. We have shot a version of this rifle, in .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire and 20 gauge, and the gun had a decent enough trigger to take rabbits at 25-30 yards.

If anyone was fixated on getting a Savage Model 24 combination gun I would suggest a .223 Remington and 12 gauge, as it is probable provides the best capabilities and the ammunition is more readily available than say the .22 Hornet and 20 gauge.

There is another gun option with the EAA-Baikal IZH Model 94MP Combination Gun, an import model available through most Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) Dealers albeit at a hefty cost,…around $1,200.

The EAA-Baikal IZH Model 94MP Combination Rifle-Shotgun is available in several combination gauges/calibers:

12 gauge / .223 Remington

12 gauge / .30-06 Springfield

12 gauge / .308 Winchester

12 gauge / .45-70 Government

410 gauge / .17 HMR

410 gauge / .22 Long Rifle

410 gauge / .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire

On both the Savage and EAA Comination guns, there are provisions for mounting a scope, which may be a necessity due to the rudimentary sights on either gun.

If you are set on owning a combination rifle-shotgun for survival, I would suggest a Savage Model 24 in whatever caliber-gauge combination you want (or can afford), then maybe the M-6 Aircrew Survival Rifle in .22 LR and .410 gauge. Although I know some people happy with their Baikal Shotguns, I think you would be better served spending the money on a high quality .22 LR rifle and separate 12 gauge pump action shotgun,….even then you would still have enough money left for a decent .22 LR handgun.