Simple Home Tests to Determine Whether Your Bullion Is Real or Fake

"Here is a very informative article from one of my readers. Jerrell asked if I would post it in efforts to help readers identify whether or not your precious metals are real. Jerrell is from Money Metals Exchange. Money Metals Exchange, is the national precious metals dealer that was just voted #1 in the U.S., partly because they publish a large amount of high-quality content."                                                                                                                                                -Urban Man

Simple Home Tests to Determine Whether Your Bullion Is Real or Fake

Just about all bullion investors worry about counterfeits. Those concerns are magnified when someone is buying for the first time. Stories about fake coins from Asia and gold bars drilled and filled with Tungsten have been in the headlines recently. But the truth is, counterfeiting is just about as old as the concept of money itself.

Fortunately, making phony coins or bars isn't easy. The equipment involved is significant – it takes far more than a color printer and the right paper. And making fakes good enough to pass a few simple tests is darn near impossible.

Some testing equipment, such as mass spectrometers and sonogram machines, are expensive and impractical for the typical person to use.

However, here are some lower budget ways you can determine whether or not the bullion you hold is genuine:

Size and Weight

Gold and silver are extraordinarily dense metals – much denser than just about any base metal (even lead and mercury in the case of gold). That means just about all fakes that weigh correctly will be too large in diameter and/or thickness. Or they will be underweight in order to achieve the right diameter and thickness. Simply comparing the diameter and thickness of the coin in question with others known to be genuine could be enough to put you at ease.

If not, an inexpensive set of calipers and a jeweler's scale are a good way of checking. Every coin or round is produced with close tolerances in terms of diameter, thickness, and weight. You can find these dimensions on the “Specifications” tab on our coin and round product pages.

Investors might also consider Fisch Testers. Genuine coins will be both small enough in diameter and thin enough to fit through a slot in the tool, while remaining heavy enough to tip the tool on its 

fulcrum. Simple and very effective.

Sound or “Ping” Testing

Authentic gold and silver coins chime when struck and the difference is notable versus base metals.

Base metal coins will sound duller and their ring will be shorter -- much like the difference between clinking crystal versus glass champagne flutes.

Try balancing the coin on your fingertip and strike it with another coin. This video provides a good demonstration.

Investors with an iPhone can also install the CoinTrust application and test a short list of the most popular gold and silver coins by gently spinning them on a hard surface with the phone’s microphone positioned nearby.

Android users can install the Bullion Test app. Choose the coin from a drop down list, press the microphone button, then balance the coin on your fingertip and strike it with a fingernail or another coin. Results are instant and accurate.

Magnetism

The above video on ping testing also references another simple technique for using a magnet to identify fakes. Gold and silver are non-magnetic. Placing a strong magnet on a coin and tipping it to watch whether the magnet slides off, as it should, or sticks, like it would to a counterfeit, requires only an inexpensive magnet and a few seconds. (Note that some base metals used in counterfeiting are also non-magnetic, so we suggest doing this in conjunction with some other techniques listed.)

Thermal Conductivity Testing for Silver

Silver is one of the best conductors of thermal energy found in nature. That makes it easy to test silver bullion using nothing more than an ice cube. Place an ice cube on top of a silver bar, coin, or round, and you should see it begin melting almost instantly as heat is quickly transferred. Holding a coin or round between fingers or in the palm of your hand makes the results even more noticeable as the silver rapidly cools to your touch.

Acid Testing

Investors can purchase inexpensive acid test kits for gold and silver. Watching the color change in a drop of acid can reveal whether or not a sample is genuine. However, acids should be handled carefully. Your items can be permanently discolored.

Since bullion coins, rounds, and bars are valued for their metal content, not their beauty, discoloration is unlikely to reduce the value of your bullion by more than a small amount. But it’s still wise to use acid testing sparingly and with caution.

A Word about Tungsten Fakes

Some of the hardest to detect counterfeit gold products involve tungsten. Tungsten’s density is close to that of gold, and it is relatively inexpensive. Here are some of the best ways to avoid problems:

Avoid large gold bars. 10-ounce and larger gold bars are among the easiest to tamper with as they can be drilled, filled with tungsten, and then plugged again with gold. This is more difficult with units 1 oz and smaller. Tungsten is extraordinarily hard whereas gold is soft. This means tungsten is very difficult to use in minting or fabricating small items. It is brittle, and stamping it with a design will result in coins with less detail unless it has been plated with a thick layer of gold.

Ring testing as outlined above should still offer defense against tungsten fakes.

If the deal is too good to be true, it probably is. Never buy gold bullion below its melt value unless you know and trust its origins.

Buy silver. No metal shares a similar density to silver, making it even more difficult to make good counterfeits than with gold. Plus, the financial incentive is lower.

Recently some of the more prominent mints and refiners have begun employing technology to mark products with seals that assure authenticity. For example, Sunshine Minting rounds and bars carry a seal that reads “VALID” when viewed using their proprietary lens and oriented correctly.

Investors can expect this sort of technology to be more widely used in the coming years. (Note: the lens carries a cost of around $20.00 and needs to be purchased separately from the metal itself.)

As mentioned above, the best defense against fake bullion is to buy from a reputable dealer. Money Metals Exchange sources products directly from well-regarded mints and refiners and employs good quality controls. That is why we can confidently stand behind every product we sell – guaranteeing authenticity, weight, and purity.

Clint Siegner is a Director at Money Metals Exchange, perhaps the nation's fastest-growing dealer of low-premium precious metals coins, rounds, and bars. Siegner, a graduate of Linfield College in Oregon, puts his experience in business management along with his passion for personal liberty, limited government, and honest money into the development of Money Metals' brand and reach. This includes writing extensively on the bullion markets and their intersection with policy and world affairs.

"Urban Man says buyer beware!"

Urban Man

Currency Re-Set Coming? Economic Collapse on the Horizon? Prepare with Gold and Silver

More opinion from Bob Rinear from an article called "Personal Reset Survival".   I did not include the entire article. The beginnings of it talked about governmental currency and the Fed. I thought his comments on holding Gold and Silver would be of interest to Survival Preppers even though many of you do not think holding precious metals are a high priority. I understand that most people simply cannot afford Gold - neither can I. None of us cannot afford NOT to own some precious metal and that draws us to Silver, however I hope Rinear's comments will have some of you re-think the possibility of getting some smaller weight Gold coins.

Very few people own gold. VERY few. The bankers like that. The raids they’ve done on the paper futures to drive prices down, have sent most of the “make believe” gold holders sell out and forget it. This isn’t an accident. They don’t want a lot of folks holding a lot of gold, because when the reset comes, they’ll benefit “too much” from having a big stash. They’d like it better for you to have your silly paper currency and nothing else. This is why I believe that to this day, gold and to a smaller extent silver is the single best thing you can do to help yourself through this upcoming period.

The problem for most people is simply the price. The Average guy wants to own some gold he knows it’s the right thing to do. But he can’t cough up the 1300 bucks needed to buy an ounce. This is why most people tend to go with silver. It is still cheap enough to where you can buy a pretty hefty amount for not too much money. Will silver do well? Yes I think so. I’ve said for years, that its got 70 dollars an ounce in it if not more such as 100. But it will be gold that makes the biggest move, and be the most desirable.

While silver is still used in coinage around the globe, all trade between nations concerning gold is done by LBMA certified currency grade gold. Most people don’t understand that. They think that if they have some US gold coins or Canadian maple leafs, that these are what governments would use to settle debts. This isn’t true. It all has to be smelted down, refined to 999.9 and certified by the LBMA. This is an incredible purity, done under very strict guidelines. Each step of the process is monitored and recorded. Oh and by the way, it “costs” more. One of the questions that we get a lot is “what should I buy, coins, bullion, rounds?” My answer is fairly simple. If you’re talking about silver, you want one-ounce “eagles”. They’re without doubt the single most recognized coin you could have.

But in gold, it’s a bit of a different story. With gold costing 1300 dollars an ounce, it is 1) hard for the average person to buy much of it if any at all, and 2) as far as using it as a true currency, the unit is “too big” to be practical. In other words, let’s say that all hell breaks loose, things get really ugly for a period. Well you still need to buy “stuff” whether it’s food, or fuel or an axe. What are you going to do, hand over a one ounce gold coin for some canned beans? No, that doesn’t work.

So in Gold I suggest buying the smallest recognized coins you can get. Will you pay a premium for that? You bet. Just like a pint of milk costs more per ounce than a gallon. But I’d rather pay for a “good” with a 1.10th ounce coin. So, in our way of thinking, holding silver eagles and small weight gold coins is good “survival” tactics. For holdings beyond that which you would use for emergency money, then you would consider one ounce gold coins, and bulk silver.

We do NOT buy numismatic coins as the bulk of their “value” is what someone says it’s worth, versus the metal content. That can vary too widely for us. I believe the reset is coming. I believe the Chinese are pushing for and demanding it and they carry enough weight now to make it happen. I think their push to hoard up so much gold is to try and percent back the Yuan with gold, and thus make the renminbi (the official currency) attractive enough to carry a good weighting in the new SDR’s. I think that when it happens, gold and silver will be allowed to rise to all new highs. I have to believe, having some of both is the single best thing we can do.

Bankrupt Governments Likely To Confiscate Wealth And Independence

Excellent article from Gold Silver Worlds on what appears to be a probability as the US Government not only increase the national debt limit but did not put a cap on the limit on how much the government can borrow. I am not posting this article by Claudio Grass to suggest you run out and buy Gold. Although I believe in having Gold and Silver on hand, it is only one aspect of total preparedness.  I am posting this for overall situational awareness.  

I am also posting this article as it supports the the 100% probability of an economic collapse unless things change drastically and soon.  Whether you call it a financial or monetary collapse or a super depression really doesn't matter.  What matters is the likelihood of the government confiscating not only precious metals but other forms of wealth in order to perpetuate their control.  They (the Government) will have no choice if they want to retain control and power.    


The first Liberty Forum will take place between December 4th and 8th. The conference has a focus on asset protection, wealth preservation and the preservation of liberty. Some off-the-chart successful investors, metals and resource experts, offshore service providers, and international legal and accounting professionals will be on hand to help with personal preservation strategies.

Keynote speakers are Peter Schiff, Doug Casey and Mark Skousen. One of the many lectures will be held by Claudio Grass, a passionate advocate of free-market thinking and libertarian philosophy. Mr. Grass is convinced that sound money, i.e. gold and silver, and human freedom are inextricably linked to each other. In his function as Managing Director at Global Gold in Switzerland he offers investors a safe, convenient and competitive Swiss solution for buying, selling, storing and delivering a variety of physically allocated bullion coins and bars, completely outside of the banking system and protected under Swiss law.

Claudio Grass has written several white papers, research notes and articles. In them, he has clearly explained that the most likely outcome of the current global debt situation is that governments will try to inflate their debts away. That is what has always happened throughout history. The current evolution of events has not changed his view. The latest actions by Bernanke, in particular his decision not to stop QE, underlines the validity of Claudio Grass’ view. “Taking Yellen’s history into account, I am certain she will follow in the footsteps of her predecessor. Therefore, nothing has changed from my point of view.”

The Liberty Forum conference brings up some fundamental statistics about the debt situation

•  The U.S. currently owes 885% of its GDP, more than any other industrialized country.
•  America hasn’t passed a budget since April of 2009.
•  As a country, the U.S. has had a budget deficit in 42 out of the last 47 years.
•  U.S. expenses are 56% higher than its revenues.
•  America expects to double its debt within the next 10 years (the interest on that debt alone will equal $1 trillion a year).
•  Its annual income is $2 trillion, while its total debt obligations are $121 trillion (that’s a debt ratio of 60/1 – typically anything over 1/1 is a HUGE red flag to any investor, indicating that a country is not likely to be able to pay its debts in 12 months’ time).

The true US financial situation remains remarkably underexposed as the mainstream media is mainly concentrating on Europe and increasingly the emerging markets. We asked Claudio Grass about his opinion on that.

German economist Wilhelm Röpke once said: “The theories men construct, and the words in which they are framed, often influence their mind more strongly than the facts presented by reality”.

This sentence nicely describes today’s mindset amongst most people in the western word. It is no wonder because we were raised in a government controlled education system, in which we are indoctrinated from childhood that the path of success is based on memorizing and repeating! We are not taught to question [authority], the reason for this is that it is much harder to manipulate logical or independent thinkers.

This is why I am such a fan of history; our world is the result of thoughts and actions from the past. You see the cause and effect? The problem is that the actual system we live in focuses only on the effects but never discloses the underlying causes, let alone trying to connect the dots. This research needs to be done by the individual. However, research requires a healthy portion of curiosity and bravery as well as independence and self-confidence to stand up for one’s own opinion, which will be in contrast to the story we are told by governments and the mainstream media. The emperor has no clothes; however, it always takes time until the child that reveals it will be heard.

The world reserve currency is still the U.S. Dollar (USD) and more than 60% of all the reserves with central banks are still based on the USD, and only approximately 25% are in Euros. Therefore, many more governments and pressure groups are dependent on the USD and have an interest in not disclosing the truth about the actual state of the dollar. Also, in terms of global trade the USD is still the prevailing currency, especially as long as the USD keeps its hegemony over the Middle East and its oil reserves. In addition, specifically related to the USD, there is a single institution that has decisive power. It is therefore much more reactive than the Euro system with different central banks and different nations, each with their own national political agendas. Therefore, the power of the Euro is much more limited, which makes it also more fragile and vulnerable.

Bankrupt governments likely to confiscate wealth and independence

Claudio Grass goes on to point to a concerning trend: as governments run out of money, people’s sovereign rights to wealth and independence get increasingly trampled. What the world is experiencing for the last 100 years is an ongoing centralization especially in terms of credit – the so called monetary system – and political power in the hands of a few. This is only financeable if existing wealth is redistributed from the bottom to the top, through inflation and taxation. Since 2007 the average U.S. family wealth plunged 40%. Back in 1913 the average government quota was less than 10%. Today, depending on the country, (or the state) government quotas are between 50-70%. The trend is obvious! This system can go on until the remaining 50-30% is nationalized. The result is simple: Slavery!

That’s why it is my conviction that we are going to see “tools of financial repression” kicking in much harder within the next 5 years, which will impoverish most of middle class, but also affluent people. I see some parallels with the Weimar Republic before World War II. Back then, the US government in cooperation with Wall Street, flooded especially Germany with cheap credit by implementing the Dawes and Young Plan during 1924 and 1932. Afterwards it happened what always comes after an artificial boom: destruction and bust. This created a toxic environment for persons such as Hitler, Stalin, Franco and Roosevelt, to name just a few who came to power at about the same time, and more important, promoted more centralized political power and war. People were exhausted and the future was not really bright – and we are facing the same symptoms again today. We have 50 Million Americans living off food vouchers and this figure is still climbing. I believe history does not repeat itself but it rhymes, and therefore people need to understand that within the actual system property-rights do not really exist. People need to realize they are dependent on the whims of government and banks.

The first signs of these trends are already visible. Politicians and mainstream media say that things are improving which does not reflect the above mentioned trends. Most economic reports even expect economic growth. How can expectations be so different while everyone is looking at the same data? Claudio Grass answers that question with a quote of Edward Bernays, Father of Propaganda.

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in a democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. [...] We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. [...] In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons … who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”

Include a monetary crash in your risk assessment

Claudio Grass looks at the mess the world is in today and suggests to include a possible crash of the actual system as part of one’s risk assessments. Therefore, an investment into a tangible asset, without having any counterparty- risk, makes absolutely sense.

It is impossible to foresee when the system will crash. Inevitable does not necessarily mean imminent. However, “I am convinced that this world will look very different in the coming years and what can be said, too, is that it is not developing in the right direction.”

Anthony C. Sutton (British and American economist, historian and notable author, answered this question once by stating: “It will not stop until we act upon one simple axiom: that the power system continues only as long as individuals want it to continue, and it will continue only so long as individuals try to get something for nothing. The day when a majority of individuals declares or acts as if it wants nothing from government, declares it will look after its won welfare and interest, then on that day power elites are doomed.”

I started buying physical Gold and Silver in 2004 and so far it has been a very good investment. At the same time I explored the fascinating history of money; it reads like a criminal novel or even like a horror story in some cases. I personally support a system that is based on free market money where people can freely decide what they want to use as currency – sound money for a sound society. Money stands in the center of how human beings live together. It must be consequently a property title and not a debt promise. Gold and Silver are money in its pure form! They allow people to exchange goods, based on mutual respect and honesty….. With sound money we used to have production and trade and therefore prosperity. With fake money these periods have been dominated logically by corruption and wars; or in the words of Lord Acton, “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

UrbanMan's comment: I agree with everything in this article except the very last sentence" "Great men are almost always bad men.” This is simply not true.  Great men are most often common men to rise to meet a challenge. 

Gold and Silver Prices Sliding - Chance for Preppers

The current slide of Gold (and Silver) prices which now appear at this post time to be possibly be inching  up again, nor reports of Gold scarcity from purchases by foreign governments (read Chinese among others) have nothing to do with the Survivalist's need to have some gold and silver on hand as an essential component of their collapse plan. Let me say that again,....all the hoopla around Gold and Silver, .....as investments, as hedges against inflation, or to protect against deflation of the dollar have nothing to do with the the need for preppers to have some precious metals on hand, be it gold and/or silver bullion, and/or coins for silver melt value just to have some type of buying power after a economic or financial collapse.

It has been reported by several respected financial analysts that China and India alone account for almost 80% of the annual Gold purchases. Add in Russia's new focus on building national wealth through Gold purchases does not leave much for the rest of the world. There have also been reports that the U.S. is vastly overstating the Gold Reserves that the Federal government holds. Nice! In some minds this makes it more likely that the U.S. Government will develop some sort of regulation on physical precious metal holdings and even a confiscation program under the guise of national security, a la F.D.R.

In my mind, damaged as it is, I draw a difference between a economic collapse and a financial collapse. In short, an economic collapse would be commodities driven with shortages (fuels and food among others) and skyrocketing prices driving food riots and the projected government attempts to control the mess. On the other hand a financial collapse would be a collapse of the dollar, a tanking of Wall Street reminisance of the Great Depression, or a possible attack on our banking systems and networks.

I don't expect many people to agree with me on the above definitions, but that's how I have to cateogorize these real threats in my mind and in my speech to predict possible scenarios.

Back to Gold and Silver. So again, the market forces, large foreign government buys and investment advice all have nothing to do with the need for the totally prepared survivalist to have physical gold and/or silver on hand as purchasing power if and when the dollar holds no more value, or is even perceived to hold no more value and people will refuse to accept it for transactions.

I fully realize that most people cannot buy Gold as it is prohibitive expensive to buy much if any at all. Gold closed on Friday 19 April at $1,392.70 an ounce while Silver closed $23.30, so Silver is the poor or average man's precious metal.

Two of the questions I get asked the most regarding keeping cash and precious metals on hand, are:

"How much cash should I keep on hand?"

Well how much can you afford to keep on hand? I know a guy who, every two weeks at payday, takes all his money out of the bank except for the mandatory minimum enough to pay bills. While I don't advocate this, I do admire this guy for the committment he has, as he has been doing this for three years now. No telling how much cash he has at home! And no, you can't have his address.

I believe that upon the imminent and actual collapse of fiat currency there will be people accepting cash for a short period of time,...until food runs out or until it is clear that fiat currency won't be making a comeback anytime soon.

Just like noted financial guru Dave Ramsey advocates an emergency fund, I just think this emergency fund should be partially kept at home if you can take measures to safe guard it.

"How much precious metals should I keep on hand"?

Again, how much can you afford? I have a very small amount of gold. SIlver is the poor man's precious metal and taking last week's closing price of $23.30 and not counting the premium you pay for rounds or bars, 100 ounces would cost you $2,330.00

Starting from nothing, if you bought 2 to 4 ounces a month after a year's time you would be a quarter to half way towards 100 ounces. I think that's a decent target goal. If you can afford mre then go for it. That advantage of buying small amounts at local sources, and paying cash, would keep you under the radar for both robbery and confiscation,...sorry about being redundant,..I should have just said robbery.

So just like that AR-15 you have in the closet and hope to never use for real, Gold and Silver fill an  emergency need as well.  Consider putting some away.   

Economic Collapse: Watch Out For QE3

QE3 is of course Quantitative Easing Round Three, where more fiat currency is printed further devaluing the current paper money in circulation and necessarily causing prices to inflate because the dollar is worth less. Once QE3 is announced or actually executed,.....expect the latter since the Government and the Fed have taken secrecy from the people to new heights,....precious metals will go up, particularly Gold.

In fact, when the major central banks launched a joint action to provide emergency U.S. dollar loans to banks in Europe, which put more money (not backed by anything but some politician's word) there became a rush to buy equities and commodities that would survive inflation and Gold rose $30 an ounce.

As 2011 ends, the four FED governors will be replaced and most analysts figure that the next four will be much more liberal in their monetary policies. QE3 will probably be snuck in, money created from air, without much publicity; and the present incredible low interest rates will climb as the dollar devalues. This will incite the $16.4 trillion Federal Debt to explode and the U.S. will be all probability start the slide to become like Greece. So the smart people are buying precious metals ahead of the very probable QE3.

It shouldn't end there for Survivalist. Everything will go up in price,... excepting your pay checks. The smart idea is to procure now what you can, because as the interest rates rise, the beginning of the dollar collapse begins. Scary times my friends. They will likely become much more scary in early 2012.

I am not advocating going into debt to purchase vehicles or property at the current low interest rates, although I know a couple people who are rationalizing that they would rather have new, reliable vehicles for a Bug Out
than to try and procure one when the interest rates are higher and the dollar buys less.  I'm not going to do that.  I'll continue on the same rate, maybe just step it up a notch, on procuring long stay food items and perhaps more Silver. 

2012 is going to be ugly.  Be prepared.

Gold and Silver Market Information

Another source for up to date information on precious metals and solid analysis specifically on the Gold and Silver markets is Private Bullion.

This site, ran by Scott Hage, provides easy to understand links between Gold and Silver and how the National Debt, Stock Market and other economic factors influence each other.

UrbanSurvivalSkills has long said that the smart Survival planner understands that Preparing for the Collapse or SHTF if you prefer, involves much more than stocking guns and ammunition. Surviving anything be it a bad blind date or SHTF requires planning and preparation,.....understanding the threat,...keeping on top of indicators for the collapse and taking the correct measures to ensure you are not caught flat footed.

Private Bullion is also a discreet source for precious metals: Gold, Silver, Platinum or Palladium as well as coins or a numismatic value or for melt value. We have long held that the complete Survival Preparer should have a quantity of at least Silver coins, both bullion and coins for silver melt value, in order to be completed covered for the many and diverse catalysts of collapse that all lead to American's struggling for food and security.

Add the Silver Bullion blog (link at top) to your bookmarks and spend a few minutes visiting their site every couple days or so to stay informed in the economic realm especially as it pertains to previous metals.

Survival Planning - More Debate on Having or Not Having Precious Metals

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post Survival Planning - The Argument Against Precious Metals: "Let me explain why "profit" entered into the discussion of buying silver or gold. I held a substantial amount of gold and silver for about 22 years. I did finally sell it at a profit and I'm happy I did. Had I invested it during those "go-go" years I would have about four times as much money from that investment. I don't care if you are rich or poor having four times as much money to prepare for bad times is, well it's four times better then what ever you have. Until you have held your gold and silver for 22 years with no chance to sell it at a profit or even break even then you do not know about the second thoughts and self doubts.”

“During the entire time I held that gold and silver I NEVER had a year’s supply of food. Today I have a lot of food and a lot of other preps but no gold and silver. Ask me if I believe I am better prepared today or when I had 150 pounds of precious metal in safe deposit boxes!!! Now, I believe in PM's and if things get really bad I am willing to trade some food for junk silver, silver rounds and gold. I am not willing to buy another 150 lbs of PMs and wait another 22 years to get my money back. At some point in the future things will get better (I hope! They could get so bad we are all dead). But if things get better it is likely all of you who invested in PMs will get the opportunity I had and that is to hold your PMs for years and years without any hope of ever getting all your money back.”

UrbanMan replies: Okay “Mr. Anonymous I don’t believe in PM’s”, your point is taken and certainly valid. My plan is to have PM’s pre-need, meaning I am holding mostly Silver, junk and bullion, in case the dollar collapses and I need to buy something when fiat currency is not accepted.

I am not holding such a vast amount as to put a burden on me if I have to execute an emergency Bug Out.

At some point we preppers prioritize our procurement and readiness, however I am comfortable with the amount and types of food I have put away; the type of firearms and amounts of ammunition I own; and the general other preps I have undertaken.

I just think we are looking at PM’s from different perspectives: You - as a valid or invalid investment; and me - as a small part, but a necessary component of an overall SHTF insurance plan. I hope this is all for nothing,...I hope to pass my silver bullion, silver coins I have compiled for silver melt value and the tiny amount of gold I have onto my family decades from now.

Survival Planning - The Argument Against Precious Metals

Starting to get a "back and forth" on Precious Metals whether or not this is an essential item for the well prepared survivor. Anonymous has left this new comment" "I didn't sink all my available liquidity into gold and silver. I suppose I could have just left it there. My point was that for 20 years I could not make a profit with it and in fact since those were to 20 go-go years of the stock market I probably could have turned all that into a million dollars. So I don't have a problem with some PMs but keep in mind the silver you buy today for $38 may drop like a rock and not reach that price again in your lifetime. I don't like to gamble and PM investing is gambling. Yes it is a viable way to prepare for an economic collapse but hopefully you have other plans as well. Today I am PM free but I am a prepper never the less. When TSHTF I my well sell you some food for gold and silver."

UrbanMan replies: Nor did I sink anything but what I could afford to spend on Gold and Silver,...mostly Silver. I don't think the word "profit" should even in the equation when it comes to talking about the validity of having Gold sand Silver in case of a major collapse.....again, the lifeline purpose as opposed to investment.

Sure there are many investors who think the coming collapse, as bad as it may be, will also be fairly short and the Country will come out of it on the good end and those with Gold and Silver will be the new rich people. This is what George Soros and many others are doing and that is ensuring they have a lot of Gold and Silver so they can ensure they will be among the riches when this Country comes out of a major collapse.

I have been talking to a friend of a friend, who is a local investment advisor from a national chain. Aside from the fact that he is very close to having to find another line of work because of the downturn in investing and returns, he recognizes the probability of a collapse. With two small children under 6 years old, he is very scared. Even this guy who made his living helping people with financial planning and investing has now bought some physical Silver as a lifeline......as well as stockpiled some food and bought a handgun to supplement his hunting firearms.

Without a doubt there are Preppers, and I know some of them, that refuse to buy PM's, even coins for Silver melt value, because they believe they won't be able to buy enough to make a difference. I think that's just crazy. If you didn't have a firearm, would you not buy one even though you couldn't afford a high end AR? To me this is the same line of thinking.

I have never placed PM's in a priority position unless all of your other needs are met. Everyone has to determine what that is on their own. In fact, I would consider many other items more essential than Gold or Silver. Those items would be: firearms and ammunition; food and more food; water purification means (in depth meaning many systems); seeds; tools; radios, flashlights, batteries and recharging systems to include solar panels; good clothing and footwear and other personal survival gear. There should not a major issue with one getting better in all areas at the same time to include purchasing PMs even if you only can afford one Silver ound at a time.

I won't be using Gold or Silver to buy food, firearms, ammunition, batteries, seeds, clothes as I have enough of those items already,...at least for the short term.

I have PM's in case I need something I forgot, or maybe a fuel purchase or just about anything that cannot be foreseen, hence stocked.