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Thursday, June 27, 2013

AK-47 versus the AR-15 as a SHTF Gun


The Blaze posted an article from Tactical Gear which was a comparison on the AK-47 and the AR-15, with the tag line "Which is the better rifle?"

The article gave statistics concerning recognizability, numbers in production, countries (military forces) in use, and share of the global firearms market which of course are all immaterial to the survival prepper.

This article did compare such fairly important topics such as: Maximum Effective Range; Caliber; Muzzle Energy; Standard Length; Rounds per Minute (rate of fire); and, Accuracy. What are these factors and how important are they?

Maximum Effective Range

The maximum effective range (MER) is supposedly the range in which a a trained shooter can effectively engage a man sized target, and for testing is usually the full size Army "E" type shiloutte. The AK-47's MER is 400 yards versus the AR-15's (or M-4) MER of 600 yards. MER is, in this case, largely an affect of accuracy and in this case the sights on the rifle, from which the AR series rifles have greatly superior sights.

Caliber, Muzzle Energy and Stopping Power

The AK-47 fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge also called the M43 Russian, while the AR-15 fires the 5.56x45mm or the .223 Remington cartridge. Or basically, the AK-47 with a bullet of 122 grains at 2,400 feet per second versus the AR-15 shooting a 55 to 62 grain bullet (among other weights) at 2,900 feet per second.

Which would you rather shoot a bad guy with if your life depended upon it? The AK-47, handsdown, as more stopping power as it produces more muzzle energy and is more likely to leave all it's energy in the target than over penetrate the target and taking some of that energy with it.

Standard Length

The standard length measurement is basically nonsense since both platforms can be configured with folding or collapsible stocks to reduce the length. However, argueably, a fixed stock allows for a better stock/cheek weld for longer range accurate shots. It the rifle has a collapsaible or fixed stock, then it has moving parts and generally a higher failure rate than non-moving parts. No sweat on either. Select the configuration for your requirements. If you travel extnsively and figure that you may be shooting from vehicle then a shorter overall length may be a good idea. Rounds per Minute (rate of fire)

The Tactical Gear comparison listsa the AK-47 at 600 rounds per minute versus 700-950 for the AR-15. This is based on selective fire and really a non-starter as far as consideration for a SHTF gun as most people own semi-automatic only versions and would have to be facing the chinese-mongol hoards to burn a barrel out.

Accuracy

The Tactical Gear article listed the AK-47 as having 10 Minute of Angle (MOA) accuracy.  That equates to 10 inch groups at 100 yards - this gun is more capable than that.  They list the AR-15 as 7 MOA which is 7 inches at 100 yards - again this gun is more capable than that,..in both cases, if the shooter is. 

Sights and training greatly affect accuracy of any given rifle.  As well as different bullet weights, bullet designs and loads which are available for most rifle calibers.  The AK-47 does not have a long list of different bullet weights and loads like the .223 Remington, however individual long guns will "like" certain brands and loads better than others.  Given these facts, most rifles possess sufficient accuracy for the average prepper.  I have no problem whatsoever with the accuracy of AK-47's out to 400 yards.  Past 400 yards, one would wonder if you really need to take that shot.  Certainly when faced with the giant horde of vicious mobs hell bent on your destruction and taking what you own, the earlier you begin reducing those numbers the better off you will be in most cases.  The trick is to start fights only when you absolutely need to and have a good chance of winning.

So the bottom line,......while the AR-15 is inherantly more accurate than the AK-47, the AK-47 has sufficient accuracy to serve as a primary SHTF long gun.        

Ease of Controls and Trainability

I think the ease of use and training someone to be proficient should be considered in the selection of a SHTF long gun.  The AR-15, hands down, is easier to change magazines and manipulate the selector lever, safe to semi.  The AK-47 selector is a thumb buster and requires right handed shooters to take their strong hand grip off the pistol grip to push the selector up to safe or down for semi-automatic.   

Other Neglected Comparisons

Weight of ammunition and magazines.  While there is at least one company, Palm, making polymer, P mag type lightweight magazines  for the AK-47, the greatest amount of AK-47 on the market are steel and therefore heavy. Adding the greater weight of 30 rounds of 7.62x39mm versus .223 Remington, a basic load for the AK-47 will be heavier for the Prepper armed with an AK-47.

The AR-15 and all the vendors making after market accesories offers a wide range of products to customize the AR-15 or variant to the needs of the prepper.  And certainly shooters have a propensity to modify the AR-15 to an extreme degree.  What is telling if one ever gets the chance to attend a tactical carbine course, is that the gun and it's configuration, modifications and bells and whistles on day one after much different than the last day of training.  In the tactical carbine courses that I have taught, I have never failed to see shooters stripping their guns of the weight of accessories as the training went on, ending up with probably what they ought to carry on the gun in the first place. 

The bottom line is that any serious prepper, should have a magazine fed rifle be it the AK series, AR variant, M1A, HK-91 or 53, Galil, etc.  I thinks the coming times will demand it.        

15 comments:

  1. I like both types of rifles. But since most police departments and the military use the ar platform availability of parts and ammo would be much easier with an ar15 in a shtf environment. Keep prepping stay safe.

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  2. I agree, both rifles are fine weapons with proven track records. Each with its own strong points as well as weaknesses. Which is the better rifle? "At What?" would be a more appropriate question. I have two AR15's in my inventory, but would welcome an AK any day.

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  3. I was a diehard AR-platform guy --- until I tried out one of the AK pistols now hitting the market. They're short (generally 19-½ to 21 inches) & handy in tight quarters, fire the powerful 7.62x39 round & their empty weight (around 5-½ lbs.) negates the weight of a 30-round magazine.

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    1. BTW, for those who are about to scream "There's no buttstock,! You can't aim it effectively!", I can only reply: "You do know how to properly use a rifle sling, don't you?" There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to SBR one of these pups.

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    2. I couldn't agree more. Along with a Zastava N-PAP Underfolder, I keep an MP92 pistol for when the SHTF.

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  4. One thing that everyone is overlooking in the AR platform is the ability to use a 22LR conversion kit. This gives a wider option for ammo. Gives the ability to take smaller game, with a quieter 22 cartridge, and quickly convert back to the more powerful 5.56 cartridge. Plus I can carry hundreds of rounds of 22lr ammo as it weighs almost nothing.

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    1. Wow! Have been putting together AR variants for 3 yrs now and have a hybrid BCM/LMT carbine in 5.56. This after yrs of owning a norinco mak,90 and "reconfiguring" a saiga IZ132 back to true AK form.

      Either ak variant or my ar will do. The civilian AK variant is NOT all 100% reliable( Wasrs have proven that) and good ARs rarely "jam"( 2,300 rds through my BCM M4 style upper with socom barrel and m16 bolt carrier-no hiccup or malfunction)

      For home defense or bug out to a safer community/ area, either will suit your needs. A realistic SHTF is a fast pandemic or katrina style disaster, where the government is crippled for several weeks, and the usual opportunists come out of their dung heaps!

      I don't believe in mad max gum battles( the idea of prepping for a disaster is survival, not playing "last man standing"-anyone preaching that mindset is DEAD during a disaster)

      If you need a long gun until Rule of Law is re-established, buying either an AK or AR/M4 clone will do.

      Lets leave the 400m + kill zone views to our troops who have to do it. Engaging past 100 ft isn't "self defense" or fighting for survival post disaster

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  5. No contest whatsoever --- the AK will outsurvive the AR platform EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    It doesn't need to be babied, require a shitload of extra bells & whistles just to make it half-assed reliable & will go BANG! when you need it to --- unlike the AR.

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    1. Yeah...unless u happen to buy a Century made AK and it does not function because it was built by monkeys using a hammer and vise grips. Just because it's an AKM variant does not make it foolproof. Stop with the buckshot.

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    2. My century is good to go. 1000+ rounds zero malfunctions, 3in groups at 100yds. Rivets are solid. You have to know what you are looking for with century. Its hit or miss

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  6. The fallacy of the AK being more reliable than the AR is not really a good point to pick the AK over the AR platform anymore. It has been years since the AR was a shit platform and most the bugs have been worked out. I carried an M16A4 in the military in conditions that most wouldn't subject their AK or AR platform to and it preformed flawlessly. At the end of the day, no matter which weapon you have, if you cannot even properly field strip it and clean your weapon, it is going to fail you when you need it (and contrary to popular belief, you must clean an AK eventually). I have friends that chose the AK platform but do not even know how to clear a stoppage (and I have seen an AK stoppage before in one of my buddies cheap ass AK rifles). Whatever weapon system you choose, make sure your are proficient at it and know the ins and outs of your rifle. With all that said, I would not be upset of having either an AK or AR platform if SHTF.

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  7. I keep an Arsenal sam7sf AK because that is what I am comfortable with.

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  8. I have owned both. Currently own the AR platform. The way I see it; the AR was designed many years after the AK had been in service. It was a step forward back then; otherwise, the US military would have been looking into a clone/copy of the AK platform. Taking both to the range and shooting both at distance; side by side, the AR won for me hands down. Lighter. Faster sight acquisition and tighter groups with one-up drills with less "searching" for a sight picture. With that said; If I could afford a machine gun. I would definitely want an AK and buy a lot of ammo. But overall. Due to weight. Sights. Ergonomics. Magazine changes and parts availability. Owning at least one AR should be on the list. Food, water, shelter and light should be very important as well.

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  9. I'd say you must have both if SHTF. You'll be able to use both ammo types, in there respective gun. both have benefits, and negatives, but when built for certain roles each one shines

    I don't own an AR yet, but I will.

    I'm putting a folding stock and vertical grip on my AK as I have a lot of high capacity steel mags (30s and 40s) and even a 75 round drum. It'll be a close range gun, since I'll be able to shoot with the stock folded as well. It'll also have a quick acquisition sight on it, probably a holographic that is co-witnessed.

    I'm going to set my AR up when I get it with a 20" heavy barrel, and a good scope mounted on top of a carry handle. That way I can still use irons, but can also pop up to use the scope, probably a 3-9 or 4-12 power will be up there.

    So my AK will be for up close work (25-250yrds), and AR for the long ranges (251-500yrds). Obviously too close I'd switch to my pistol, and too long switch to a 308 rifle.

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  10. The difference maker for me is the AK cartridges. All else being equal, I'll take the bigger bullet every time.
    And yes, "all else isn't equal" here, but it's close enough..

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