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Tuesday, February 21, 2012

Militas on Trail - Survivalists Next?

UrbanMan say’s:
One of the perceptions some in mainstream America have on the Prepper or Survivalist Movement is one of radical, right wing, racist extremists. In some cases you can add the word “Militia” to that. These descriptions fuel images of the Aryan Brotherhood in Northern Idaho; of the Branch Davidians at Waco; the “Posse Comitatus” movement in the Midwest: and a host of others.

In today’s post 9-11 world the McCarthyism type search for home grown terrorists often brings the Prepper/Survivalist movement into the cross hairs of the Federal Government and their multiple Intelligence entities. This targeting effort is enhanced when the ideology of the Government is decidedly liberal, where words and concepts like “individualism”, “individual responsibility”, “preparedness”, “conservatism” and even “Christianity” are terms for scorn and ridicule.

Aside for Operational Security concerns, the fear of being lumped into that radical category is what keeps many of us from exposing our beliefs in being prepared for, (pick one) economic collapse, societal collapse, SHTF, or Armageddon, to family members or friends.

I think one way to protect ourselves from being lumped into that radical category and worse, become a target of the Federal Government, is to be able to separate our political beliefs from our Survivalists actions. Hard to do you say? I don’t think so. After all, our survivalist preparations are a safe guard,…an insurance plan for a contingency that may never happen. All of our preparations to survive the chaos of a total economic or infrastructure collapse are intended for when our political efforts, to keep this nation from arriving at chaos, have failed.

The straightforward act of ensuring you and your family, or your survival group (call it a militia if you want) are prepared for the effects of any collapse should not be a means of creating that collapse. Let me say that again,…our preparations for the collapse are not the means to effect or cause the collapse. We have to ensure that it remains so.

Another thing we must do is to keep the upcoming trial of Hutaree Militia in focus, to keep from being lumped into this category or to otherwise keep from being a target of any over zealous government agency. It remains to be seen what the actual ground truth here is. Whether the Hutaree Militia are just a hapless Survivalist group who ran their mouths like school yard taunts,……or if they are actually anti-government, violence prone idiots who deserve to be jailed...or maybe some where in between.  I don’t know if one could ever be sure of the truth, but it is for certain that this trial will effect the way people and the government look at organized Survivalist groups.

Militia on Trial: ‘Good Ol’ Boys’ and Preppers, or Anti-Gov’t Domestic Terrorists? This was the headline a few days ago while the article below can be found on

DETROIT (AP) — Seven members of a Midwest militia accused of plotting to overthrow the government are set to stand trial, where jurors will decide whether federal authorities prevented an attack by homegrown extremists or simply made too much of the boasts by weekend warriors who had pledged to “take our nation back.”

Opening statements are set for Monday once a jury is seated in the trial of members of the Hutaree militia, who are charged with conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, as well as weapon crimes.

Following the March 2010 arrests in southern Michigan , Ohio and Indiana , U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said the time had come for authorities to “take them down.” An undercover agent had recorded the group’s leader, David Stone, saying the militia needed to “start huntin’” police soon.

But since their capture, only one of nine people charged has struck a plea deal, an unusually low number in a case with so many defendants. Their attorneys have maintained a consistent stance: The anti-government talk was simply colorful yet aimless bluster akin to frustrated pals drowning sorrows around a campfire.

“I’m going to fight it tooth and nail,” David Stone’s wife and co-defendant, Tina Mae Stone, said during a break in jury selection last week. “It was just a bunch of good ol’ boys out to have fun. We did survival stuff. I did it mostly to spend time with my husband. People tell me, `good luck.‘ I don’t need luck. I’ve got God on my side.”

The militia prepared for survival in case of domestic chaos or an attack on the United States , attorneys Todd Shanker and Richard Helfrick said in a court filing. They noted the group even had a website and promoted its weekend outings.

“Regardless of the charges in the indictment, there is no dispute that the aims of the Hutaree militia included the free exercise of their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, including freedom of speech, association, assembly and the right to bear arms,” said the lawyers, who represent David Stone Jr.

The indictment, however, describes a more sinister band. The government says the Hutaree, based in Michigan ’s Lenawee County , was an anti-government group committed to fighting authorities who belong to a so-called “New World Order.” The defendants are accused of conspiring to someday ambush and kill a police officer, then attack the funeral procession with explosives and trigger a broader revolt against the U.S. government.

“The court will hear testimony and examine evidence concerning this particular group’s hatred for, and desire to do physical harm to, law enforcement,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Graveline said.

The government has more than 100 hours of audio and video, including the recording of David Stone, 47, apparently talking about police.

“I think we gotta just start huntin’ `em here pretty soon. … They’re easy to find, they‘re sittin’ alongside the road and they got these red and blue lights on top of their car,” he said.

A co-defendant, Michael Meeks of Manchester , Mich. , replied: “It’s like a Kmart super special or whatever.”

But some conversations were sprinkled with laughter and a mix of subjects, including strippers and drawing Hitler mustaches on photos of state troopers. Agents seized machine guns, unregistered rifles, ammunition and parts for improvised explosive devices.

The government’s case got off to a rough start in 2010, when U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts released the nine until trial under strict conditions. The government swiftly appealed but then agreed that four could go home wearing electronic monitors. An appeals court ultimately ordered the other five to remain locked up, including David Stone.

The government relied on an undercover agent inside the group and an informant. But the informant comes with warts: He pleaded guilty in state court to firing a gun during a dispute with his wife and also attempted suicide. Another witness who was married to a Hutaree member not charged in the case attempted suicide and told a grand jury she’s prone to panic attacks.

“How often do American citizens get charged with sedition or inciting discontent and resistance against big government? Heck, most citizens are discontented with the government,” said Lloyd Meyer, a Chicago lawyer and former terrorism prosecutor. “In this case, no one pulled a trigger and no one got hurt. … A jury could believe that the feds went after this group with a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel.”

But Alan Gershel, a former prosecutor who teaches at Cooley Law School in suburban Detroit , said the allegations in the indictment seem more than goofy talk.

“There was planning. There was acquisition of firearms. There was training,” he said. “Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired? You have to choose the moment of time when things go beyond chatter. That’s what the government is aiming at here.”

Joshua Clough of Blissfield , Mich. , is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors. He pleaded guilty in December to illegal use of a firearm, faces a mandatory five-year prison sentence and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree.

Besides the Stones and Meeks, the other defendants are Joshua Stone of Lenawee County ; Thomas Piatek of Whiting, Ind. ; and Kristopher Sickles of Sandusky , Ohio . Jacob Ward of Huron, Ohio , will have a separate trial. Besides conspiracy charges, all face at least one firearm charge and some have more.

Comments It is also for certain that this event has generated pretty definitive opinions. Here are some of those on-line comments:

SGT Rock, February 13, 2012
This is how those in power paint people who rise against them, they label them nuts, homegrown terrorists, gun crazies and such. This prevents the average citizen from having a common bond with these types of ‘extremists.” I hope they are not guilty of the charges against them. When this President took over and his administration said that all veterans are to be watched because of the possibility of them uprising and we vets became public enemy number one my internal alarms were going off. Yes some ex-vets go bonkers but no more so than some wack job civilian. Those in power will do whatever it takes to stay in power. So since I am a veteran and may be put against the wall with folks like these or Glenn I decided to become a vocal non-supporter of this regime. This is just the beginning folks of what is to come. If Obummer gets another 4 years there will be no stopping the madness as he fundamentally changes our great country into some banana democracy. We all need to watch the watchers to keep them as honest as possible.

Byehlik, February 13, 2012
I’m sure the courts will be full of patriots as the treasonous government tries to put the label on the patriot. Wow, buying weapons, practicing with said weapon, constitutes planning and training a revolution against big tyrannical government when you voice your concerns. Wow, that puts alot of folks in that camp. If these guys were targeting police, they should answer for it however, it’s not the police that are the problem, it’s Washington DC .

Viet Vet, February 13, 2012
Are the so-called machine guns….actually machine guns??? As we’ve seen time and time again over the years, guns claimed to be machine guns by the left are really only semi-autos. Is the communist, Van Jones, really a hero to the left??? I would imagine so. Are these people, the subject of this piece, political prisoners??? Of course they are.

TexasHunter, February 13, 2012
And so it begins. Correction they have been watching us from 09. Keeping an eye on us from day 12. There is only ONE man that will take us back to our constitution. We however can’t look past the theory of letting Israel take care of itself. God says he will ALWAYS take care of his land. How about we take care of OURS for a second!! Then after we get back to our ROOTS then go and help our neighbors from a bay. Otherwise this is what is going to happen ON A DAILY OCCURRENCE. AMERICANS being targeted as TERRORIST!! GTFO OWEBAMA. This is why we are getting ready. 2012 We are the REPUBLIC. I hope the ARMY MARINES NAVY AIR FORCE wake up and realize it is time for our military to take OUR Country BACK!! WE USA CITIZENS are being classified as TERRORIST now!! WTF!!!

UrbanMan’s final comments: While I do not discount the possibility of the Government doing everything from lying, to fabricating evidence, to having a not so hidden anti-gun, anti-religion agenda. I cannot abide by anybody targeting law enforcement to make a political point, if this is true, let alone the asinine comment about hoping for a military coup.


  1. This group and those 'on-line comments' are what make people nervous about preppers.

    You may disagree politically or theologically... and that's fine. That's called a healthy Democracy. But if you start talking about killing cops and hoping the military takes "YOUR" country back... That's crazy talk my friends.

    If you can think of a time in American history when everybody got a fair shake, where everyone got a vote, could eat a meal in any restaurant they pleased, were free to marry whoever they happen to have fallen in love with and a woman has the final choice in matters of her own reproductive health... then I'll be the first person to help you turn back the clock. Until then... moving forward is the only option. It's the only choice.

    The great thing about choice is, you have it. You can be progressive, or you can be left behind. But advocating an authoritarian about-face... forcing 'values' that restrict the rights of people who don't share your beliefs... There's a word for that. And it's not a nice word.

    “When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross.”
    -Sinclair Lewis

    Last I checked, I was made in America. And I’ll follow any morally sound order given to me by the lawfully elected government of The United States. If some of my fellow preppers end up on the wrong side of that line, sorry my friends. But you’re a threat to me, and the country that I serve.

  2. The talk about hunting police officers is what takes these boys into a different realm than most of us preppers. LEO are just doing a job man, and they are plenty of good ones out there along with the bad. Its not like your standard trooper signed up to persecute US citizens. IF, and its a big IF, they can prove and validate that the leader of the group did make statements about wanting to hunt cops, then I think these guys are way out of line and the gov did the right thing to intervene.

    I am no fan of this administration and don't like what I see going on anymore than the rest, but you gotta admit hunting cops and planning to blow up funerals ain't right.

    1. "LEO are just doing a job man, and they are plenty of good ones out there along with the bad."

      {Quote]While the rate of police officers officially charged with murder is only 1.06% higher than the current general population murder rate, if excessive force complaints involving fatalities were prosecuted as murder the murder rate for law enforcement officers would exceed the general population murder rate by 472%.[/Quote] From here:

      Perspective man, just putting it in perspective.

  3. We cross a line of logic, reason, and fairness if we think for one moment that our LEOs do not struggle with possible future "illegal orders" - and how they might react. Even the most radical political view must acknowledge men and women of reason in Law Enforcement and the Military. There are both socialists and libertarians among them, just as with the rest of society.

    Recall the "cartridge box" as one of four protections of liberty comes dead last, only when all else fails, never first. A few populist recalls would be a better start to change.

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