Survival Firearms - Cross Bow versus Supressors

UrbanSurvivalSkills.com I received another comment on the Cross bow article: Anonymous said,…..I find the crossbow interesting - as in that zombie show the walking dead they put the crossbow to good use - but I agree that you better have a pistol or rifle on you as well if that need of a fast follow up shot is needed. But that then also mandates the need to plan ahead "if" that first crossbow shot does not do the task - to have a proper escape plan etc if you do then start with a loud weapon such as a rifle or handgun. I'm inclined to go ahead and get a silencer for a .22 and have that for any needed stealth situations - $200 for the tax stamp is not too big of a price - still far less then a decent crossbow even after you add in the actual cost of the silencer and the tax stamp itself.”,

UrbanMan replies:: Still cannot wrap my head around on the need for a crossbow. But Suppressors! Now that’s a good tool suitable for many applications. In fact, the current trend for military and law enforcement high end units is to use suppressors for about every mission set. And speaking of .22 LR Suppressors, I recently shot a Walther P-22 with a Gem-Tech Suppressor. This was a sweat set up. I have had previous experience with Gemtech with their excellent suppressors for the 5.7mm P-90, but we use Surefire QD cans for our M-4’s.

This is what Gemtech has to say about their .22 LR suppresors:

The Gemtech ALPINE is a user-servicable rimfire suppressor that is lightweight and requires no special tools to disassemble. Easy to take down and clean, it features high decible reduction, unique-to-Gemtech "Caged-K" baffles, which provide the strength needed for disassembly.

This allows the ALPINE to still offer the outstanding performance of the K-type baffles but without the weakness of an unprotected K as seen in fragile competing designs. Made of tough 7075 aerograde aluminum with non-galling titanium thread area, the ALPINE also features the distinctive and functional Gemtech grip surface on the rear which adds a distinctive, elegant touch to this premium suppressor.

At an overall length of 5.6 inches, weighing 3.7 ounces and finished in black matte hardcoat anodizing this is a robust little unit at $425.

Another Gemtech option is the OUTBACK-IID. This is a highly advanced thread mounting .22LR caliber suppressor adaptable to almost all .22LR rifles and pistols. For its tiny size, the OUTBACK-IID has premium level sound reduction dry with some of the lowest first round in the industry, outperforming many significantly larger units. While a true bargain, Gemtech doesn't skimp on quality: 7075 high tensile strength aluminum is used (not cheaper, weaker grades), a non-galling titanium thread mount area instead of cheap steels, and a stainless steel blast baffle is incorporated into the lightweight stack. It is finished in an attractive and durable matte hardcoat finish in black anodizing. Everything that makes up this silencer is premium, except the price.

It mates well with virtually any .22LR firearm which can have the barrel externally threaded. It is usable on pistols as well as a wide variety of .22 rimfire rifles. Since mounting to the firearm is accomplished by attachment to muzzle threads, the suppressor can be quickly removed for cleaning, compact carry, or storage.

IN SHORT: the best .22LR suppressor at the best price; a true "Sweet Spot" between sonic performance, price, size, and weight. The Outback-II is America 's most popular suppressor for many good reasons, all backed by Gemtech's proven decades of the best customer service in the business!

At an overall length of the OUTBACK-IID is 5.0 inches, weighing 2.5 ounces and finished in black matte. The cost is $325.

Gemtech products or contact with Gemtech, an Idaho based company, can be made through their website: http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/home.asp

And/or through their blogsite: http://www.gem-tech.com/blog/

Urban Survival comments on Rawles' American Redoubt article

Someone sent me a link to James Wesley Rawles' Survivalblog and asked me to comment on his article of 28 March entitled “Move to the Mountain States – The American Redoubt”

Read the article here: www.survivalblog.com


Rawles, author of “Patriots”, writes: “I'm now urging that folks Get Out Of Dodge for political reasons--not just for the family preparedness issues that I've previously outlined. There comes a time, after a chain of abuses when good men must take action. We've reached that point, folks!”

Rawles makes sense in his article. Urging people to re-locate to a safe area, and in this case he suggests Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, eastern Oregon, and eastern Washington. He further suggests that Utah, Nevada, North and South Dakota wouldn’t make the criteria and explains why.

Additionally, Rawles provides a combined before and after move checklist, which much of it is great advice even if you are planning to Bug In at your present day site or homestead even if it outside the “American Redoubt”.

The person who asked me to comment on this article did not provide any other guidance on what he expected out of my comments, so my first comments are focused on the fact that moving to this geographical area is not possible for the vast majority of the population. Call it the reality of life. Unless you are well off, most of us need our current jobs and very little room to maneuver when selecting job sites or duty locations. The current housing crunch makes it damn near impossible to sell our homes. Other reason to make a move impractical are: family and friends that we need to stay geographically close to, that either rely on us, or we on them; and, what if the collapse just does not happen? Although I am convinced that life as we know is going to change,…what remains to be seen is just how bad it is going to be.

I am going to comment on some of the bullet’s Rawles wrote under the header “Your Checklist”:

If you buy an existing house, get one with an extra bedroom or two. Some relatives may be joining you, unexpectedly. The larger issue is planning how you are going to house, feed and integrate any newcomers to your survival group be they relatives, friends, people who skills and temperament are needed and would likely fit in,…..and even people you may have to detain. I have four military cots, two fold up commercial cots and two air mattresses, not to mention a spare bed room and four couches suitable for sleeping on. If you work in shifts, the need for sleeping platforms decreasing as you can ”hot bunk” at least for awhile.

Develop a home-based business. Lighten the load. Keep the practical items but sell your junk and impractical items at a garage sale. Sell your jewelry and fancy wristwatch. What this means to me is to become more secure financially. Eliminating debt is a good place to start. Although the question begs to be answered,…”If the collapse hits who is going to be collecting debt?....especially in worthless fiat currency?” You can raise cash for Silver purchases or for any survival equipment or material by selling things you don’t need. Be careful not to replace it with stuff you don’t need. A home based business can bring in an extra stream of income, especially ifi you choose the right business: Make sure the company is respected and has a high level of support; make sure the products or services are top quality; and, make sure the compensation plan is fair.

Sell your sports car and buy a reliable crew cab pickup. Absolutely, you need to have a suitable Survival – Bug Out vehicle. Crew Cab pickups are better than SUV’s as they can generally carry much more; can serve as personal carriers and are very well suited foraging expeditions. Four wheel drive is a plus. A winch is a great idea. For urban dwellers, SUV’s fit in. A good place to start looking is the Toyota FJ series vehicle.

I do not suggest selling your television set. With continued service, contact with the outside world is a possibility to learn what is happening or to even analyze government BS when they start to spin it. Sure, a radio is a necessity, but a television backs that up, plus you can play DVD’s through a cheap player on a television to provide some much needed entertainment, or even educational material, from time to time,..especially for children.

Anyway, advice everyone to read Rawles article and keep his site bookmarked so you can get to it a few times a week to see what is new. Be safe, prepare well, Urban Man.

Urban Survival Planning - Defending Jim's Last Article (Chapter 24)

From UrbanMan: Wow! Never thought Jim's posts would generate so much skunk! Took me back to a much earlier age where by ex-wife was having a piece of me!

Let me tell you about Jim (not his real name of course). Jim works government contracts in the Information/Technology/Computer hardware field. He was working in my office one day where he heard us talking about guns and he asked "if we carry guns all the time, why do we need a bunch of personal guns at home?" Therefore Jim was started to be exposed to Survivalist thinking, and preparing for any type of collapse,....and this was about the same time I opened this site. In fact Jim was one of the people who urged me to do this. Up until then if you asked Jim what he thought about Preppers, he would be thinking right wing, cammie clad, six fingered inbred extremists.

I thought it would be a good idea to have a person newly exposed to the survival preparation concept write a periodic article for this site. Jim agreed. I edit his writing very little.

In the past, what? maybe 16 months?......Jim has bought about six to eight months of prepared, long term food as well as added a routine to stock a months worth of pantry items. He has also bought silver and a little gold. Being predisposed not to like firearms, Jim now has several,....not the guns I would suggest for survival, but what he was mentally willing to have.

Not hurting for money at all, he has also acquired a lot of survival gear: tents, sleeping bags, all mmanner of odds and ends,.....good rugged clothing and boots,....

Jim's son is in college about 50 miles away. Jim has raised his son by himself since his wife was killed in auto accident when the boy was seven years old. He has introduced his son to the survivalist mentality where his son thinks it is "cool". I have helped Jim developed some "no comms" plans and linkup points. He not only understands the concept of this but has taken to my instruction in "load signals", and "far - near recognition and danger signals". Since he finished his contract at our facility, I don't see him very much, but communicate mostly by e-mail. It's kinda hard to teach him field or trade craft from an e-mail or even over the phone, but he was an apt student early on.

Jim has developed a plan to bug in but also a contingency to bug out to a safe location in a family cabin next to a government forest. He has also emplaced several small caches there. I have reviewed his primary, alternate, contingency and emergency routes from our City to his son's college and from both locations to the cabin and think he got a A+ in this endeavor.

He has made it a point to learn how to read a map and use a compass. And has conducted practicals at this art which is being replaced by GPS in this day and age.

Anonymous said in response to Jim's Chapter 24: ....stopping by the store to buy another gun and ammo? seriously? i almost laughed out loud when i read that one,......I re-read Jim's article and he said "I would have liked to stop in at the sporting goods store of a gun shop and buy another gun..." I think Jim's has the common sense to avoid situations he is unprepared for. Entering into a mob scene at a retail location would be one of them.

Maybe Jim and the Anonymous commenter both assumed alot on the scenario I gave Jim. My intent was to get Jim to think about items and material he is going to need, so he doesn't have to rely on trying to battle massive hordes for that all important lantern mantel, or box of matches or second propane tank.

Anyway, exercises develop lessons learned,...the idea is to learn from these lessons. I think Jim did. He just bought an SKS a couple days ago, for $180 including three detachable 30 round magazines, however the SKS was in the original stock with the semi fixed box magazine. Jim e-mailed me to tell me about his purchase and to find out how to convert the gun to using the detachable magazines.

Urban Survival Weapons - Cross Bow versus another Survival Firearms

Reader Question: I have several handguns, most notably a .44 magnum Ruger Redhawk and a 9mm Ruger. My main SHTF gun is a Hungarian AK. I think I am pretty well covered for firearms. I am thinking on acquiring a cross bow for several reasons. It is quiet, I can use it for hunting and I can make my own arrows for it. I am interested if you or anyone else has any experience in cross bows for survival situations and if it makes sense to put a scope on it?

UrbanMan replies: I would consider the cross bow a very inadequate survival or defensive weapon. The many movies that depict a silent sentry removal using a cross bow are fantasy. I never saw them in our inventory or anyone else's. They are inaccurate at all but short ranges and the "arrow", actually called a bolt, is highly affected by the wind, not to mention any vegetation between you and the target. The effective range for a highly skilled archer would be around 20 yards in my opinion,..... you miss or need an additional bolt into your target, then re-loading time will make that second shot immaterial. And since the cross bolt head or broadhead is much bigger that a bullet and going much slower, this means a much higher chance of deflecting off of bone at anything other than a perpendicular angle to the target. I would forget about the cross bow.

You do not mention if you own a 12 gauge shotgun. Or a .22 LR rifle. I would consider these much, much more important for a Survival Firearms battery. Both are common calibers; have a much better range; and, can be more effectively used for hunting. Plus there is nothing like a 12 gauge shotgun for defensive purposes at short ranges.

If the AKM, a good and reliable weapon, is your primary survival firearm, then I would also consider acquiring a few of the new polymer AK magazines, from U.S. P.A.L.M. that I wrote about in a previous post. I have tested these magazines and they are excellent. They have a self leveling follower; are steel lined around the feed lips; and have several holes in the follower where dirt and debris can be shook out of the magazine as you cannot disassemble these magazines. This company also makes a P-Mag type magazine for M-4 (AR type .223 rifles) but I have not had a chance to test it yet.

A good crossbow cost several hundred dollars,...you should use this money for a 12 gauge shotgun or .22 LR firearm, preferable a rifle. In fact, for the $400 I saw on some Crossbow prices, you could get both.