More Comments and Debate on the AK-47 versus the AR-15 as a SHTF Gun

I received a couple more comments/e-mails from readers expressing their opinions on the better of the two rifles/carbines for the gun to have for the collapse.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "AK-47 versus the AR-15 as a SHTF Gun": "Wow! Have been putting together AR variants for 3 yrs now and have a hybrid BCM/LMT carbine in 5.56. This after years of owning a Norinco MAK 90 and "reconfiguring" Saiga IZ132 back to true AK form. Either AK variant or my AR will do. The civilian AK variant is NOT all 100% reliable (WASRS have proven that) and good ARs rarely "jam"( 2,300 rds through my BCM M4 style upper with SOCOM barrel and M16 bolt carrier-no hiccup or malfunction). For home defense or bug out to a safer community/ area, either will suit your needs. A realistic SHTF is a fast pandemic or katrina style disaster, where the government is crippled for several weeks, and the usual opportunists come out of their dung heaps! I don't believe in mad max gum battles (the idea of prepping for a disaster is survival, not playing "last man standing"-anyone preaching that mindset is DEAD during a disaster). If you need a long gun until Rule of Law is re-established, buying either an AK or AR/M4 clone will do. Lets leave the 400m + kill zone views to our troops who have to do it. Engaging past 100 ft isn't "self defense" or fighting for survival post disaster. "

UrbanMan's comment: The above comment was very sound. My take away is that the man behind the gun and his planning is as or more important. I somewhat agree with your 400 meter - 100 meter analogy. However, there are circumstances where engaging out an extended distances would make sense such there being two of you and a large group is approaching your cabin or structure. If it was unavoidable that this group closes with your cabin, and undeniable that your lives are in danger, why wouldn't you engage at an effective range rather than wait until this group closes with you, spreads out and makes it much more difficult to engage?

Neal dropped me an e-mail with his observations: "I have no problem with people who want to own an AK or a clone, but the man who has an AR (I have two Rock River M4 clones) is much better prepared for all contingencies especially living in a big city with all the crazies going bonkers when they can't find any food. I think you are doing people a disservice by recommending anything but an AR, apologies to those of you who have 7.62 AR's but 5.56mm is much easier to find and easier to carry. Right now I live in the city and drive a truck on a city route making deliveries. I always carry my Glock without my supervisors knowing cause I'd get fired. My wife is finishing up a nursing program and we'll move to whether she can get a job. But right now our plan is immediately leave our apartments each carrying an M4 and Glock, with our battle rattle and bug out bags, then go down the stairs of our apartment to the parking basement to access our car. She is going to drive and I'll be in the back seat to I can shoot out both sides. We have about 16 blocks to go to get into a non residential area then into the country. We're not waiting around at all. All of you who own AK's would go much better with an M-4 like my city situation."

UrbanMan's comment: Neal, I don't think I have "recommended" AK's. My focus is on regular people just getting better prepared for the collapse whether it comes from the dollar tanking, an EMP attack, a great depression or even zombies! Most people are just not going to go out and buy what they think are Military Weapons. I think a family who has a bolt gun, a shotgun and maybe a .22 pistol or whatever they have, can get the rest of their preps up considering food, water, necessary survival gear, shelter and defenses, and above all, a plan that covers the Bug Out. I applaud you on the plan you have leaving your apartment and getting out of the city at first chance. Maybe you and your wife and did a couple weaponless rehearsals, clearing hallways, stairs and basement. And what happens if getting to your vehicle is not viable or that vehicle craps out? Consider a plan to move on foot to another location whether it is a defensible short term hole up and/or a place to procure another vehicle.

Urban Survival Planning - Defending Jim's Last Article (Chapter 24)

From UrbanMan: Wow! Never thought Jim's posts would generate so much skunk! Took me back to a much earlier age where by ex-wife was having a piece of me!

Let me tell you about Jim (not his real name of course). Jim works government contracts in the Information/Technology/Computer hardware field. He was working in my office one day where he heard us talking about guns and he asked "if we carry guns all the time, why do we need a bunch of personal guns at home?" Therefore Jim was started to be exposed to Survivalist thinking, and preparing for any type of collapse,....and this was about the same time I opened this site. In fact Jim was one of the people who urged me to do this. Up until then if you asked Jim what he thought about Preppers, he would be thinking right wing, cammie clad, six fingered inbred extremists.

I thought it would be a good idea to have a person newly exposed to the survival preparation concept write a periodic article for this site. Jim agreed. I edit his writing very little.

In the past, what? maybe 16 months?......Jim has bought about six to eight months of prepared, long term food as well as added a routine to stock a months worth of pantry items. He has also bought silver and a little gold. Being predisposed not to like firearms, Jim now has several,....not the guns I would suggest for survival, but what he was mentally willing to have.

Not hurting for money at all, he has also acquired a lot of survival gear: tents, sleeping bags, all mmanner of odds and ends,.....good rugged clothing and boots,....

Jim's son is in college about 50 miles away. Jim has raised his son by himself since his wife was killed in auto accident when the boy was seven years old. He has introduced his son to the survivalist mentality where his son thinks it is "cool". I have helped Jim developed some "no comms" plans and linkup points. He not only understands the concept of this but has taken to my instruction in "load signals", and "far - near recognition and danger signals". Since he finished his contract at our facility, I don't see him very much, but communicate mostly by e-mail. It's kinda hard to teach him field or trade craft from an e-mail or even over the phone, but he was an apt student early on.

Jim has developed a plan to bug in but also a contingency to bug out to a safe location in a family cabin next to a government forest. He has also emplaced several small caches there. I have reviewed his primary, alternate, contingency and emergency routes from our City to his son's college and from both locations to the cabin and think he got a A+ in this endeavor.

He has made it a point to learn how to read a map and use a compass. And has conducted practicals at this art which is being replaced by GPS in this day and age.

Anonymous said in response to Jim's Chapter 24: ....stopping by the store to buy another gun and ammo? seriously? i almost laughed out loud when i read that one,......I re-read Jim's article and he said "I would have liked to stop in at the sporting goods store of a gun shop and buy another gun..." I think Jim's has the common sense to avoid situations he is unprepared for. Entering into a mob scene at a retail location would be one of them.

Maybe Jim and the Anonymous commenter both assumed alot on the scenario I gave Jim. My intent was to get Jim to think about items and material he is going to need, so he doesn't have to rely on trying to battle massive hordes for that all important lantern mantel, or box of matches or second propane tank.

Anyway, exercises develop lessons learned,...the idea is to learn from these lessons. I think Jim did. He just bought an SKS a couple days ago, for $180 including three detachable 30 round magazines, however the SKS was in the original stock with the semi fixed box magazine. Jim e-mailed me to tell me about his purchase and to find out how to convert the gun to using the detachable magazines.